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Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

Hotmail vs. Gmail

I have used hotmail extensively before I got a gmail account and I still use it as my primary personal email box for spam purposes. I've yet to receive spam in my gmail inbox, so I've made it a point to use it as wisely as possible. Hotmail has a huge limitation in their free service: 2mb storage. I subscribe to a SalesLogix discussion group which fills up those 2mb in roughly 2 weeks give or take a couple of days. Every so often I would archive all of the messages using Outlook's tie-in to Hotmail and that was the only way I could keep the messages. Sure every email is available through the discussion group's website search but I want to have all emails just in case I need to access them quickly. Add to that the horrific moderation policy and I really wouldn't trust the discussion group itself, though the users that make it up are some awesome individuals to say the least.

Hotmail is going to lose my service soon as my primary personal email provider. The reason is they are charging people to use the Outlook->Hotmail tie in because people were using this to spam from multiple hotmail accounts. Since I believe there's enough advertising on their site to pay for this and anything else they would ever want, I don't see the need to pay for such a “service”. The only way they could keep my service is if I pissed off the moderators of the discussion group so that my email address gets blacklisted. Their extreme moderation policy has made me come close to just that, or unsubscribing to the group altogether but I really don't see that happening anytime soon.

I'll always use Hotmail since I need a passport id/email address to use MSN and access anything and everything Microsoft. I don't see myself never using it, though it will greatly diminish as it's usefulness has slowly faded. The elimination of archiving my messages will be the straw that broke this camels back though one would highly question why someone would want to archive some of the messages I save. The speed of Gmail is a plus in their favor as well, as Hotmail has issues because each click opens up an entire HTML page. Images distort or don't show, font is all screwy until you hit refresh, and a couple of other “bugs“ make it almost useless. Add to that the insanely dumb advertisements that take up most of the real estate and you get an extremely bloated product. You'd think with all of those ads they'd be able to afford giving us free users a little more.

None of this is really my concern any more. The only way I would ever go back to Hotmail full time is if google charged for their service. I don't need 1gb of email, but if I could get maybe 10-100mb it would be 5-50x better than Hotmail. I just don't see the point in paying for something that has enough advertising to cover their costs and then some. Then again that's probably why I'm not trying to make money off advertising.

Gmail Client

I'd like to be someone who thought of this first but most likely I didn't. Back when I first heard of and started actually using Gmail I knew that I would always want to archive my email messages. Regardless of the 1gb of storage, some of those messages deserve to stay on my computer. I want to categorize and store them for my reference only, especially in the event that Google decides to charge an arm and a leg for the service (though I highly doubt they will).

I thought I would be cool and develop one of the first Gmail clients for Windows. I was wrong. There was already a Gmail API specification found here: http://www.johnvey.com/features/gmailapi/. This page has the API and a proof-of-concept application that already has a good bit of functionality. Recently I discovered an application that is bound to be a full-blown client for Gmail. You can find that here: http://gmailerxp.sourceforge.net/. I thought about contributing to the open source project but I realized that my thoughts on the application will never be their thoughts. I'm a little too lead oriented to be given a sideline position and it's taken this long for me to really understand that part of my OCD.

My thought was to utilize the Gmail API developed by Johnvey Hwang and extend it to suit whatever need I have. The API specification is the best I've seen and outlines exactly how Gmail functions under the hood. Most likely I would start out with the API then trim things down to suit my needs a little more closely. I don't like external dependencies that I can't control (more OCD) so I think by the time it's all over with I'll have my own “version” of the API to suit my needs. I've yet to contact Johnvey about it, but that's because I haven't actually started coding against the bits.

I haven't really tried gmailerxp to know how well it works. It looks okay but I suppose it will be polished as it grows and more functionality is added. My thoughts were to make something more like RSS Bandit. The client would house everything, but you could keep IE windows within the client itself. This way if you ever wanted to do something “normally” you could but it kept everything as crystal clear as possible. I guess part of the reason is I use RSS Bandit a lot and making something that has that feel is more of what I'm used to. I may even decide to just code the functionality into RSS Bandit and extrapolate my changes into a plug-in that everyone can use. I haven't quite decided how I'm going to approach it though it's not like I actually have the time to do so right now. I'll probably end up abandoning the idea unless I really can't stand any of the other products out there.

I don't know how licensing plays into any of this. I don't want to violate anything by what I'm doing, but at the same time I believe whatever is in my Inbox is mine even though it is housed on Google's servers. In the end I want a client that I can use to archive stuff in the event that I actually use Gmail from here on out. I don't really want to archive messages just because I'd have to pay for the service, but that is something I would do regardless since I'm such a cheap bastard.

Print | posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 4:30 PM | Filed Under [ Information Technology Software ]

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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

You don't need a Hotmail account for passport. ANY email address will work.
10/18/2004 8:24 PM | Shannon J Hager
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

The above poster is correct. In fact, using a different e-mail address is often better than a free hotmail account, as the free hotmail account expires after 30 days of inactivity (and takes the passport with it). Passports associated with other e-mail accounts don't do that.


Another thing to note is that MSN Hotmail will soon be upgrading from 2MB to 250MB. That's plenty for most users, I should think.

I do think it's unfortunate that they're charging for the MSN Connector for Outlook - and that the old HTTP email interface for hotmail will be gone as well (I think).

This doesn't really affect me as I'm a paid (err, sort of) MSN subscriber. I say "sort of" because I'm on my free year that Microsoft graciously provided me with at the moment. But I'm happy enough with my current setup to pay $10/month for it.

The outlook connector (which syncs both my e-mail and calendar with MSN) is an important part of my setup. Both my desktop and laptop sync with MSN, so they're always sync'd together. And I can access both my e-mail and calendar from anywhere.

And 2GB of storage is way more than I'll ever need.

The thing is, Outlook with its search folders will always be more useful to me than Google's e-mail views. And my use of Newsgator also makes Outlook a staple of my daily routine. I would like to see Microsoft acquire Newsgator (as they did Lookout) and integrate both of those products into a free Outlook 2003 update. They could include the Media Center version of Newsgator and make the Newsgator Online Services a part of MSN (with free and Premium features).

In fact, I'll probably blog about that when I get home :)
10/20/2004 12:51 PM | Brandon Paddock
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

I should have figured that out. MSN Messenger is what I use as my typical IM client basically only for it's tie in to Hotmail. Since I probably won't be using Hotmail for much longer, I may even move to another IM client for the bulk of what I do.

Hotmail was supposed to upgrade from 2mb to 250mb over the summer, but never got around to it. I honestly don't think they are going to offer that to free customers but I may be wrong and they're just delayed. It's probably because they're nearing capacity because of those pesky "server too busy" errors I'm seeing quite often during prime time.

The connector for Outlook is being removed because spammers were using it to send out emails from multiple Hotmail accounts. Rather than put on some kind of IP checking for multiple accounts, I guess they decided only paying customers should be able to use this as a spam tool, which could probably still be done. They're trying to fix a gaping wound that requires stitches with an awful lot of bandaids.

I love Outlook and I use it for my work email purposes. I don't synchronize between work and home because I have a different version than my work laptop. I also don't see the point in using it for personal emails partly because there's no real place I can use it. I could setup a mailbox on our DSL account but I don't want to get spammed from bellsouth.net. Our main account already has spam and it's NEVER been used to send out a single email message. Figure that one out.

One major gripe I have with Outlook is it sorts by Conversation Topic, not by thread. This means a subject of "Blah" and a subject of "Re: Blah" "FW: Blah" or whatever will NOT be sorted together. Google sorts by thread so that even if you were to change the subject, the email would still be lumped together with the other relevant ones. If Outlook had threading support now without jumping through hoops I might use it a little more or at the very least gain a ton of benefit out of my work mailbox. I do use Lookout, but I wouldn't need to use it if I had threading.

I don't know about Newsgator personally, but that's only because I use RSS Bandit for my default aggregator. I'd love to have it in Outlook but I don't really see the relevance since it's not really email information. I've also heard horror stories about expiration in Newsgator so I'm really not interested. Add to that a pricetag, and yeah I'm even further not interested in something I can get for free. I'm sure some people would love the idea of it being integrated in Outlook for free, but I would suspect Microsoft could make a little money off of it and still come out on top.
10/20/2004 2:29 PM | Jeremy Brayton
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

I love using Gmail. Since I've switched from Hotmail it is my primary account. I return to hotmail only to make sure there are not any relevent emails there and to delete the dozens of spam emails that accumulate daily.
10/21/2004 12:23 PM | Miranda M
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

Just reiterating Shannon's and Brandon's point, Microsoft Passport works with any email address. After an email address is registered with Passport, you can use that email address to log into MSN Messenger.

BTW, Google has an IM named Hello (from the makers of Picasa), a very rudimentary one though(the same client is also used to Photo-Blog on Blogger.com)

Anyway, before you throw out MSN Messenger, you might want to check out www.conferenceXP.com :)
Have a nice day,
Vinil
11/16/2004 1:39 AM | Vinil
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

my hotmail still works via outlook, : P must be how I have it set up. I don't pay for it. It was there before they changed it. I typed in all the properties rather than have outlook do it for me, that is really the only thing I can think of. Oh well, I am greatful to have hotmail free outlook service.
11/23/2004 8:06 PM | ,
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

It still works, but eventually (very soon sometime) it will become a fee only service. It'll continue to work until that fateful day sometime in the future. Archive while you can.
11/24/2004 8:56 AM | Jeremy
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

I guess there is a way to get Gmail included into your MSN: http://www.gmailforums.com/index.php?showtopic=5850
If you do this, you can check and go to Gmail if there's new mail for you, just through MSN!

Cheers,
Joost
1/22/2005 7:34 PM | Joost
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

I have gmail and I want to use it with MSN messenger instead of hotmail.
How?
1/25/2005 9:02 AM | katie
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# How can check Hotmail email using Gmail service

how can i check our hotmail emails in gmail
2/15/2005 4:50 AM | Amjad
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

Is Gmail expires? If yes then after how many days?
3/12/2005 9:36 AM | Racer
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

I have no clue if Gmail expires. I would assume it wouldn't but I would hope there would be fair warning if we all of a sudden had to pay. There's free Gmail windows clients I know of so if that day happened, I could archive that email hopefully.

Outlook would stall for me. It would download a couple of messages and then suddenly stop. Hotmail sent me a notice about it but I ignored it since it doesn't even matter any more. I was archiving things I could search for online and much of it I don't really need to keep.

In gmail you "select" contacts by typing them. My girlfriend told me about this. If I type m for instance, it gives me a list of everyone with m in it. If you're using an application to use gmail, you won't get quite the experience you would have if you used the interface. The developers will have to play catchup on each silent release and I've seen some projects which haven't been updated in a while.

I will admit gmail is simplistic, but it literally is everything I need in a web based email client. It has nothing extra, no real fluff (though the things they do with the interface is "fluff" to me) but it does it's job. I've used about 5 or so different web based email clients and I definately like gmail the best. Of course every one of them have been free with the exception of the web based email I use with my work's hosting provider, so I may not be the best candidate to judge.
3/17/2005 12:01 AM | Jeremy Brayton
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

Gmail expires due to inactivity after a period of 9 months. This is still longer than the 30 day period that Microsoft's Hotmail service provides.

Where did the term Hotmail come from, anyways? I have a Hotmail account and whenever I tell anybody my email address they always assume Im saying Hot Male.

Weird. Microsoft needs to work on some names.
3/24/2005 11:14 AM | StuckInStarbucks
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

lamor. you don't need a hotmail.com mail account to make a "passport". It's just M$ makes you think so.
3/30/2005 12:03 PM | some
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

some, you have a slim vocabulary and it is making you appear as if you have no intelligence and should not be visiting this forum.

I am not a 'lamor' M$ (Microsoft, I assume from your apelike intelligence) you stated makes you believe that you need a Hotmail account.

The truth is, you don't have to use their email services to be "signed in" to Passport. I know this, because I have 5 different email addressses that aren't @hotmail or @msn accounts. I only have one that is listed as one of these, and I don't even sign in to Hotmail with it.

Gmail's spam filter needs to step up. The good news is, they upgraded their storage space to 2GB!

Oh, by the way -- use whatever little intelligence you have and dont try to be "leet" (I'm sorry -- 1337) when typing on the Internet. NOBODY CARES.

Have a nice day.
4/2/2005 8:02 AM | StuckInStarbucks
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

Hotmails "expiration" is also questionable. didn't login to my acount for close to 6 months. logged in with IM to same account, went back and checked mail. wow, lo and behold my email account and all the old email, still there. gotta love those guys.

You guys are too swift for me and I gotta agree with StuckinStarbucks on all you 1337 haxors, but just in case you couldn't understand what i said above:

Hotm4ils "3xpir4tion" is 4lso qu3stion4bl3. didn't login to my 4count phor clos3 to 6 months. logg3d in with IM to s4m3 4ccount, w3nt b4ck 4nd ch3ck3d m4il. wow, lo 4nd b3hold my 3m4il 4ccount 4nd 4ll t3h old 3m4il, still t3hr3. gott4 lov3 thos3 guys.
4/13/2005 6:37 PM | anoiddude
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

oh, crap, shouldn't have translated. promoting the problem.

sorry....
4/13/2005 6:38 PM | anoiddude
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

i work for hotmail, gmail suck!
4/14/2005 1:54 PM | monet
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

How to get a .net passport for your gmail account:
This is how if you don't know, you will be able to use it for MSN Messenger

Just go to passport.net and on the right side there is a thing saying register. Then just follow the steps.

Gmail is better than Hotmail!!!
5/8/2005 7:21 AM | Thomas
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

Yes, Gmail is nearly 100000 times better than Hotmail, mainly because there are no graphical ads. You guys really need to learn how to use proper grammar and stop posing as if you are so samrt. When u r not it reeeely makes u luuk dum n e wayz
5/8/2005 11:57 AM | StuckInStarbucks
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

My father told me that he got $20 charge on his credit card from Microsoft. When he called he found out that it's for the 2GB Hotmail account. I told him from next week you should switch to GMAIL with 2GB+ FREE account and there is no point to pay Microsoft for ALLOWING THEM TO SHOW THEIR ADDS and to make money from us.

Thanks.
5/14/2005 11:51 AM | Another Hotmail switcher
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

So, getting back to the point of this thread...

Does anyone know if there is any way to get Gmail to work using the HTTP account optoins in Outlook2k2/2k3?
Is there an API that has been developed (or in development) that has attempted to incorporate this functionality? The ability for Gmail to work inside Outlook would absolutly RULE - and would probably make Gmail a MUCH more attractive option than paying for Hotmail.
6/29/2005 1:25 PM | JRG
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

Pay (Microsfot) for something (High Capacity Email) that should be free (Gmail)? Lame!
7/11/2005 1:56 PM | El Chapa
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

Gmail is better than Hotmail. However,...
I've used hotmail and several other free web mail accounts over the last several years (myway.com in particular). I started using Gmail a few months ago and it is superb! Great approach to handling email threads, contact details, spell checking etc. Hotmail is very poor in comparison. However, as a person who uses Outlook at home and work I have decided to pay (for now) for a connection to allow my Outlook details to fully synchronise with Hotmail contacts and tasks- not just emails).
7/22/2005 11:19 AM | AMpost
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

I've used hotmail, I've used .Mac, I've almost everything...Gmail is the best! Its up 2500mb now, and counting...hotmail is a joke, its slow and its crap.
8/24/2005 7:13 PM | Ash
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

Well,
I remember when Hotmail was its own company about 8 or 9 years ago, long before spam was an issue and long before Microsh*t bought it. Im sure most of you can sense the direction of where Im going with this post. I'll make this plain... I HATE MICROSOFT!
I have my own personal email address that goes with my domain name, but whenever I used an online store, forum, anything....I used my Hotmail address...I didn't want any spam coming in. GMail has less restrictions and more options...I hope Hotmail dies along with Microsoft in the near future(wishful thinking). I like the idea of having to be invited to join GMail, I guess thats for the BETA purpose and maybe they dont want so many spammers on there. However, I like the fact that any spam I get, goes directly to a spam box. I decided to let the spam pile up in there for about 2 weeks, then I went in and looked at them...GMail does a good job at catching the crap! GREAT JOB GOOGLE!!! F*CK YOU MICROSOFT!!! :) Cheers,PSW
8/30/2005 8:17 AM | PSWallace
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# re: Hotmail vs. Gmail and Gmail clients

This i a pointless argument. Gmail is the best online email system by far. And its free........ The End
10/13/2005 10:44 AM | Dark Rain
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