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Keith Pleas talks about a few VB issues in a recent blog post. He points out that most VB developers are RAD-centric and C# developers are code-centric. I agree with this 100%...and I know Microsoft does, too. He also mentions the move of old VB6 developers to .NET: “...return of the VB programmer who glued together a bunch of stuff...” I think that this is the essence of VB. And, I also think this is why VB has so many problems gaining respect among users of more complex languages.

Let's face it: VB allowed non-programmers to create business solutions. That's a good thing, right? Wrong. Well, at least not in my opinion. I have worked with too many “developers” who should probably be serving me fries at lunch. And, it all started because they could clickedy-click-click-click and they have a solution to their business needs. Don't get me wrong, it saves SMB's money, but what happens when the app grows? Juval Löwy mentions the sharp up-turn of VB6 complexity in an old Visual Studio Magazine article. And, as if the technology issues aren't enough, when you don't think a problem through, you tend to get software that doesn't grow very easily. Or, it makes less and less sense as it gets larger. I've seen that a lot. How can we solve this? Don't let non-programmers develop applications.

I do want to say one thing: when I first heard about .NET, I was so excited. I knew there would be issues with VB6-ers upgrading because a lot of them aren't real programmers. Sure, they can solve simple solutions, but I knew they would find it hard to grasp OO topics. If you've upgraded, that's a nice pat on the back. If you've upgraded AND know and understand OO, I applaud you. But, for those who have done each of these as well as actually implement objects appropriately, or even better, use design patterns, you are a true developer and you should be praised (IMHO).

Anyway, back to Keith's article...VB is all about gluing things together, right? Well, that's good - what do you think SOA is all about? We (C# & VB developers) can live in a wonderful world of harmony by having C# developers create web services and components to be used within apps and VB developers can create the UI's that integrate all of the necessary components/services together into a modular business solution. I'm not saying the roles can't be reversed; I'm just saying that, given the focus of the two languages, this makes a lot of sense.

Keith also mentions that, due to the OO focus of .NET, VB isn't as RAD as it used to be. Well, when you are applying my praise-worthy suggestions, you're right, it's not. Once again, I think this is a good thing. Hopefully, those who can't/shouldn't be developing applications will find new fields of work and those left will be skilled people who can actually get the jobs done by applying these best practices and lessons learned, which is what VB6 (the platform, not the developers) did not do very much of.

In the future, I think we will see the “learn to write business applications in 5 days” books/tutorials as component-based development and SOA propogate throughout the development community.

posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 11:30 PM

Feedback

# re: All About VB (Not a Religious Post) 4/25/2004 11:32 AM Robert Björn
Applause!

Agreed 100 %.

Regards,
Robert


# re: All About VB (Not a Religious Post) 10/6/2005 7:13 AM SiGiD
...hmmm - "I have worked with too many 'developers' who should be serving me fries at lunch". Gee, that's not too elitist, is it?
Tell me - were they *ALL* C programmers? <g>
I have developed full-blown, enterprise scale business apps in VB since it became available, and both OOP and C (any flavor you like) were - and have always been - utterly unnecessary; meeting business needs is not about making pretty code poetry, its about solving problems.


# re: All About VB (Not a Religious Post) 10/6/2005 8:48 AM Michael Flanakin
Nobody says you can't solve problems with ugly solutions. Hell, you can do it all in assembly or COBOL, if you want. There are two sides to software development: art and science. "Hobbyists" typically fall on the outskirts of the science side - they get it done, but it doesn't typically look good. In my opinion, you need both qualities.

And, yes, I am elitist. I don't care and am not afraid to admit it. I follow the best practices and principles that I feel are most important. I'm not saying I'm the best or anything, tho. I'm simply saying that I believe I do what makes the most sense. When I don't, I do my best to adopt and change for the better. I'd like to think most people are like this, but that hasn't always been the case.


# re: All About VB (Not a Religious Post) 10/11/2005 5:27 AM SiGiD
- As long as the distinction is observed that "best practices and principles" are not unique to any particular programming language nor to any particular programming style. It is, after all, the programmer that makes the solution "ugly" or not, and "ugly", like "beauty" is entirely in the eye and mind of the beholder.
- My experience is that programmers who learned the art in the 1990's were taught (with misplaced but frevent evangelical zeal) that OOP was the *ONLY* correct practice and that all else was simply wrong-headed.
- It is interesting that many of the grandiose claims made for "advantages unique to OOP" during that period have since been shown to have been exagerated or simply not true.

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