Charles Young

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Over on the ILOG blog, Chris Berg called out Andrew Siemer’s post at http://geekswithblogs.net/AndrewSiemer/archive/2009/03/30/ilog-rules-for-.net-3.0-ndash-quick-overview.aspx.   I thought I’d post some observations by way of a response.
I've been engaged full time with BizTalk Server as a consultant, architect and developer since late 2003, and work for a company with several hundred discrete BizTalk engagements under its belt.   In our experience it is not uncommon for people to get the wrong idea about BTS.   BTS remains a glorified developers' toolkit.   The idea that you can just run through a couple of wizards, drop a couple of components into a designer and see a fully-featured enterprise-level integration or business process solution emerge before your very eyes is hopelessly naive.   However, that is what some people expect.   BTS provides a framework for building certain types of application, and the runtime environment needed to manage and scale robust message-based interchange and process automation. BTS can't make complexity go away - it can, however, give you a fighting chance of managing that complexity effectively.
A second observation is that, architecturally, BTS has been over-used in many scenarios, for the simple reason that no other tools were available at the time.   This has changed dramatically, and for the better, with the advent of WCF and WF.   Our own architectural thinking has evolved to concentrate on building service bus patterns that incorporate multiple technologies.   We try to exploit the synergies that exist between BTS, WCF and WF.   This is well aligned to the Microsoft's future roadmap for these technologies.
Lastly, with regard to ILOG Rules for .NET, you get what you pay for.   If Microsoft were ever to 'retire' MS BRE, I doubt very much they would reduce the cost of a BTS licence accordingly.   MS BRE is OK, but it lacks the kind of mature tooling that ILOG and other vendors can offer.   The engine, itself, is missing a couple of features, and tends to rely more heavily than most on additional custom coding. The repository is basic.   So, I don't see that ILOG's engine competes head-on with MS BRE. MS BRE provides a basic suite of tools, comes bundled with BTS, can be used to address a wide range of needs when building automated business processes and is very much aimed at developers (strangely, though, without the Visual Studio integration that Andrew describes for ILOG Rules).   WF Rules, again, comes with virtually no tooling at all, is part of the .NET Framework, addresses sequential rule processing needs and is completely free of charge.   By contrast, ILOG Rules for .NET is a serious enterprise-level piece of kit for companies who invest heavily in harvesting, development, deployment and management of business rules.   This is reflected in the price tag.   You simply wouldn’t use MS BRE at that level.
One thing.   I have never understood why vendors like ILOG and Fair Isaac don't provide better integration between their technologies and Microsoft's platform and applications.    For example, MS BRE is pluggable.   It is technically possible to plug other engines into Microsoft’s Rules Framework.   This could potentially allow their Rules Engine to be invoked by BizTalk's Call Rules shape, for example (something I’ve never bothered to prove).   Now, there are some barriers to enabling this, but they can be overcome, especially if some pressure is applied to Microsoft to improve a couple of aspects of their rules framework.   I talked to Chris Berg about this last year. It seems such an obvious way to open up an additional market for ILOG Rules for .NET.
posted on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:57 PM

Feedback

# re: BizTalk Server: Observations on Andrew Siemer's Post 4/30/2009 12:01 AM Charles Young
...although, I read just now that the next version of ILOG Rules for .NET will be rebranded as 'IBM WebSphere ILOG Rules for .NET V7.0'. Mmmm. Catchy name. Didn't know that .NET is at version 7.0...oh...I see. Integration of WebSphere-branded tools directly into BizTalk?...interesting idea ;-).

# re: BizTalk Server: Observations on Andrew Siemer's Post 6/11/2009 4:11 PM Andrew Siemer
Though our initial implementation of BTS didn't work on the project that I am currently working on - I don't think it is the fault of BTS directly but more so the environment (people wise) that we attempted to install it into. BTS - can do anything but nothing out of the box - would have been by far the best tool for our purposes both then (over a year ago) and now. Having said that, not using BTS has turned out to be a good thing as it has led me down the very dark path of rules engines. Never thought I would enjoy them as much as I am! Thanks for the clarification offered above.

# re: BizTalk Server: Observations on Andrew Siemer's Post 6/29/2009 3:25 AM Charles Young
Thanks Andrew, and my aplogies for the delay in moderating your comment.

# re: BizTalk Server: Observations on Andrew Siemer's Post 9/1/2009 2:01 PM Chris Berg
Seems like I am late in adding my comments but here it goes. In regard to integration architecture, Rules for .NET was engineered to fit. So the integration boundaries are maintained by having dependency on a shared model while the engine/RES does the rest. Essentially, the technology can integrate into just about anything so long as the contracts are maintained. When you look at all of the places where a BRMS must go, and replace .NET libraries and code, it has to be light, fast and fit.

As for plugging into BTS and WF, rules that belong to the life cycle of a process should be maintained by that tooling. BRM typically has a different life cycle that is independent of both BPM and business applications. It can improve BPM enabled process just as it can add agility to business applications that are not yet BPM enabled. So the value is there while BPM and BRM hinge together on the integration points as needed. This is what largely enables the synergy between them. It’s really a tale of two orientations—BPM is focused on process while BRM other is focused on data. In short, my argument has been that you can have better BPM (and SOA) when you introduce a BRMS -- it extends the reach of the solution to a larger set of business problems and stakeholders.




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